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Episode 062 - How Companies like OpenDoor, Offerpad, & Zillow Manipulate the Market...and You!

aquisitions home buying Aug 16, 2021

Somethings going on and it's costing Americans billions of hard-earned dollars.  Our housing prices are being manipulated.  Not only are we being ripped off monetarily but "they" are doing their best to eliminate our first line of defense when buying and selling homes: our Realtors.  Find out more in this week's conversation with Michelle favorite realtor, Jack Burns of Realty One in Gilbert.  Jack is Michelle's go-to guy and he sheds some light on this subject this week.


How to Find Jack Burns in Gilbert, AZ:

You can find Jack by going to his website, The Jack Burns Team at Realty One by going to .

Transcript of this Episode:

this is Michelle, the master of money mindset, and you're listening to BNB dash boss podcast.

And in today's podcast, we are going to be speaking with my dear friend. Jack Burns. Jack is a realtor extraordinary. The man is amazing. He's great with numbers, super analytical guy. I mean, he knows the market so well, so incredibly well think at one time we sold two properties in one week. He sold them so fast.

Like it was incorrect. And he's just my go-to guy. He really is. And so I was wondering about some things that had to do with Zillow and open door. And I was wondering there was something going on, right? I was like, something is up with these. This is part of the manipulation. The price is going up. I just could not put my finger on how it was happening.

And so I was like, Jack, I don't want to talk about these things. Can I give you a call? And he said, yes. And this is going to enlighten you. Maybe you knew about it. I, I, there was something, as I knew and some things I didn't, but let me, without further ado, introduce you to Jack Burns. I've been thinking about you a lot picking up.

Uh, I I've had, you know, we've got all the kids have moved back in. Did you know that. Did not all of them, obviously the married ones are still gone. Okay. The married ones. Yeah. You got the best house for it. It's like I was making about 1200 a month off of that little Kasita thing. Yeah, because it was, I mean, there was no, at first, when we moved here, there was no hotel.

Now there's still one hotel, but this area is growing so fast. It's a great area. If you can find a place with a, you know, like a Kasita and stuff, Nate, he was living at one of the apartment complexes over off of power Jermaine. They were charging them a 1200 a month run. And then this month their rent came up again.

They raised it $300 to 1500. Brent is doing, oh my God. And the kids are just like, I can't pay this. He's working two jobs now. And so he's busting his ass, like he's out delivering packages and the middle of the day, it's terrible, but he can't afford anything. So he's back at home. But as we're looking for duplexes and stuff for Nate, I have gone around and I'm starting to notice like this pattern and I'm like, nobody has realtors anymore.

They D they're like, I'm seeing like a trend where they're trying to push realtors out of the game, completely Zillow. And those guys are buying up a bunch of houses. You've got like open door. You've got all these different places. And they're going in, they're even buying some of the properties. There's a bunch of houses over here owned by Zillow.

And when you go in there, not only did they buy them, but they fix them up and they are the shoddiest jobs you've ever seen in a fix up ever. I mean, they, oh, it's re I'm looking at this going, this is fricking ridiculous. Any flipper would be ashamed to flip a house, looking like that. And then I don't know who they are because what makes me is yeah.

Like people had so much equity in their home. Right. So, and then they stayed at home for COVID then they wanted to, you know, remodels, everybody's doing remodels. So all these contractors have worked for probably a year straight. So now people that are not so experienced are getting work. And some of these homes, like I've been in some Opendoor homes where it's just hilarious, like the trim around the windows, Was done.

And it was like, you see all these jobs that are, somebody's like, not my job, you know? And so the trim comes down and it goes over the lip of the backsplash. So there's a gap, like just could have maybe two more, three more cuts. So, you know, on it to fit it good. But, um, they're just, oh, it's done. It's not my job.

You know, that's what they wanted. Yeah. So I would imagine that tech cause even in my own, my own homes or we flipped a home and it's hard to get contractors out there right now because there's just so much work for them. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. No, I think you're, you're like the best of the best is getting paid big bucks right now.

And they're out of the good jobs. They are getting paid big bucks. I'm noticing the prices of everything for the good contractors. I mean, sometimes they've doubled and tripled and I'm looking at stuff. There's no way you're charging me that. And they're like, that's the going rate? I mean, if that's what you want and you're like, oh my gosh.

I mean, just a year ago, or two years ago, we flipped a property down in Tucson and it was so cheap to get anything done. And now same stuff at, basically in another place. And everybody's given us, you know, a price that it's going to be almost three times more expensive to flip it. And I was like, we're holding this baby because you know, we're not going to make that much.

Now, Joe, Biden's got his pain, a bunch of more taxes too. We're in a whole higher tax bracket because of the flipping and stuff. You're like, what the heck? Now we're paying 40% in taxes on that practically it's nuts. So we're like, these are holds and they're going to be holds for awhile. But the craziest part to me was.

When I first started investing years and years ago, we were doing all the apartments out by ASU and stuff. Right? So that's when I was working for Robert Kiyosaki. And he said that, you know, the, we have the bubble. I mean, he knew it was a bubble. Every speaker we had come in said it was a bubble and stuff.

People were denying the bubble, you know, Arizona Republic was printing up. There's no bubble. I mean, life is good. It's going to be like this forever. And then Robert said, sell everything. So we sold everything and got completely out of the market for a long time. We had no down plan when the market crashed.

He had no plan for the buildup. You know what I mean? Like there were no back then there were no speakers. I mean, it was people like, uh, You know, just real estate guys dove through. Yeah. So Dolph had taught us all about real estate and fixing up and holding and stuff. But these guys, the old guys, Ron, the Grande and all those guys, they didn't have a plan for the build back up.

So we got out for a long time. We didn't start buying again until about 2000, I'd say 2011, 2012 is when we started getting back in the game and it had changed completely. Like suddenly there was online stuff and there were guys buying everything for cash. And you're like, nobody had done that before the crash.

I mean, there weren't these big groups that weren't like Blackstone and stuff like that. There weren't there weren't people competing, like all of a sudden you'd be at an auction and there would be like a ton of people there. And it was. It was a mad house. I mean, it was just really different. You know, what I saw was when we got back into it, I looked at Kevin and I looked at some of my friends who we were investing with and I said, something's changed.

And I can tell you right now, there are big guys here with a lot of money and they're competing with all the little guys they're pushing all these little guys out. And they had bought when all those foreclosures started coming on the market. I remember reading and doing research and a lot of those banks, a lot of those big REITs, a lot of those big groups, they were holding real estate and 70% of them were unoccupied 70%.

And they were, they didn't care. They didn't care that they were occupied. And so I'm looking at this now, and I'm looking at the laws that they're implementing for, you know, against the landlords and all the things that they're doing. And I'm looking at the stuff that they're doing now, pushing the real estate guys out.

And I'm like, holy crap, there are so many dangerous here. And I was like, I got to get Jack out because I'm worried, worried about people buying houses without somebody on their side, when you don't have a realtor on your side, when you don't have a real estate agent representing you and you just go into these things, what are the dangers that these people are going into?

You know, like, like you said, the shoddy work, what protection do they have against all that shoddy work? Not just that. I mean, they've got nobody in their corner, no professional telling them that this is a good price. This is a bad price. This area looks great. The CR you know, just, just like having you. Be my, my eyes and ears and all the data that you've brought me for years was super important to me, Jack.

I mean, because I mean, when I sold my houses, you sold those houses so fast because you knew the market, you could price them. Right. You know what I mean? You, I just trusted you. These people are just walking into these big companies and just, it's like, to me, it's like walking a Christian, walking into the lion's den.

It's like, you know, they're going to eat you. Right. I know. And you know, what's weird about that is like they, they have they're, they're gearing everything towards a one-stop shop. Like we're the real estate, we're the title we're in for years, we're like real estate agents is like, no, no, you're not allowed to do that.

That would be harming the client. Like you need to give them options and shop around. And you can recommend, but, and in a sense, they still do recommend, but they make it like it's a big, you know, I'm like, oh, use our lender and you're saving, you know, we'll give you a $5,000 credit. Well, we don't, you know, they don't realize it's their interest rate went up and, you know, behind the door.

And the biggest thing I see right now, and it kills me is the, I call it a big smoke screen. And I don't even know how they're allowed to do this. Like an example, like open door comes to you and they buy your house and they say, well, we'll get, we're going to give you $500,000 for your house, Michelle. Uh, and then they're going to send in their inspector and then, you know, gouged a little bit there, but they have a fee and these fees are always more than real estate agents, you know, in the long run.

Now, uh, I shouldn't say always because they were smart and I think. They did, did quite a few, what we call loss leaders. When I worked for a company, when we, when we sold groceries, we would put something to the front of the door that lost money and people, God, this is a great store. It's so cheap and it's so affordable.

And, uh, you know, they filled up their basket and we made money. Um, but the big smoke screen that's happening right now. So they, they just bought your house for 500,000 and they do their inspection and they say, we need to fix this and this. And it's going to be 50 grand, um, or 60 grand to do all these fixes and it needs a new roof and everything.

And then they say, well, we'll do it for 50. And then, um, so they give you give them $50,000 credit. And so now they've really bought this house for four 50, but on paper, they, they. We're buying it for 500. Now, this is a part of that just kills me is when they records. And then it goes on tax records. It looks like they just bought $500 from you.

They turn around and spend maybe $5,000, fix it up, paint it and fix it. Yeah. They list it for five 10. And so they're, they're really making like 60 grand, you know, if they were to sell it at five 10, but I'll bring clients in there all the time. They're like, oh man, this is a good, I mean they only paid 500,000 and they're just, they're not making hardly any money.

They just they're listed it for five 10. And I said, well, that's not really what happened unless we pull up that contract. So we don't have access to that contract. We don't have access to see that they were credited. They could have been credited a hundred grand. You know, we won't know that, but on tax records it looks like they just bought it for 500 and they could have really out the door, gotten it for four.

So I just don't know why that. Legal not, you know, not disclosed exactly needs to be disclosed when we buy it as a little guy, we have to buy it for a certain amount. Even if we do that, rig them a row, people are going to ask us, you know, where did you spend this money? Where did it go? It should be in maybe, maybe down the road, the lawsuits will come from non-disclosure because I think that's important that affect, uh, and they're getting around those not non-disclosures though Jack, because they've never lived in the house.

Well, yeah, but they know, but they know the price. I know. Yeah. Like in a normal situation, somebody has to disclose if there's like a plant that's putting off, you know, steam and smoke or something behind your house, you got to tell that buyer about it because it's going to affect the value of that home in a sense on a long roundabout way.

I think it's going to affect the value. Wow. They really paid 400 for this house and they looked like they paid five. And then that's the other thing too, in their appraisers are seeing, you know, cops and they're like, oh, this home was purchased for 500 and it really wasn't purchased for 500. It was out the door for four 50.

Wow. So, so the prices are just going up and up based on no real value at all. Yeah. And I know that's got to have some kind of a effect because I I've watched the effects, you know, just from things that I've done in a small complex, and I've sold four condos in the same complex. And like each one of those, it was a chain reaction.

Like we marketed it. Well, we, we pre marketed it. We marketed, well, we did such a phenomenal job getting that sold at such a high price. And we got offers that were over appraised value and we, you know, we had them write that into, Hey, if it doesn't appraise, you'll cover it. And now we just like shatter a record in that complex, sold this house.

And now our next house is now, you know, this house is a as a cop, this, so here we go again, doing the same thing. And you know, I'm like, how, if we can, if I can just do that, you know, one agent team, we can have an effect. I'm just a little complex. Imagine Zillow is doing to these neighborhoods because you'll see them here in queen Creek, don't buy five houses, Zillow on five houses.

And what did that do? It just did exactly what you said. It created five cops because they control the market. You're going to control the entire market. They're doing what little guys can't do. And, and that's scary to me. It's scary too. It's scary that they're pushing the realtors out though. That I think that's the most frightening thing for me is because I see a realtor as my protection.

Like I see your job as, as my protector. I mean, you're out there, you're out there. Obviously everybody works for a commission, but your job is to protect me when, when you are, whether you're selling my house or whether I'm buying a house, your job is to protect me. These guys are not protecting anyone. And there's a lot of issues.

Sad. The sad thing is call it morals or ethics, ethics, but I know they're on a different, you know, as realtors, we have the whole realtor code of ethics that we had to follow that puts us at a higher standard, but most people, and it's just weird to me, how everybody just forgot what happened in COVID. So when COVID happened, it started.

They don't realize that these companies just hosed a lot of people. So that market shifted in a scary way for the stock market, going down to, you know, 1900 and a lot of Opendoor Zillow, that money is backed by wall street. They canceled on people that they were buying homes. So you had a family selling their home to Zillow or Opendoor, and they don't realize that you have a page full of disclosures that we would have told our clients, like, that's not good.

These guys can cancel at any time. They can cancel hours before it closes. And they're getting ready to hand your keys. And that's exactly what they did. So when co there was three really bad weeks kind of for housing and, you know, just more or less shoppers didn't want to go into other people's houses ever.

Didn't nobody knew what it was. They're like, what is this disease going around? It's freaking everywhere. Sellers started taking their houses off of the market. They didn't want people coming in well, Zillow and an open door. They were buying houses. And because they have that in their contract, they didn't know it was going to have, they're like, well, we don't want to be stuck with these houses.

So here, you know, here's this family that's closing on a house tomorrow. And then I was like, Nope, we're out, we're canceling. And they've already moved into their new house or they've already, you know, moved to the different state that they're going and left these people hanging. And I thought, how horrible the, and then, and then three, four weeks later it was just like, nothing happened like, oh, we're back to buying houses.

And, and, uh, yeah, the market looks tasty right now. So they just quickly, you know, shutting those people off. And I said, man, that's not, you know, and it didn't get it. Didn't get no, I mean, it's not, it's not moral or ethical. I mean, that's pretty unethical. Anybody else you and I would have lost our deposit.

Right. At least at the least we would have lost our deposit. We might've even had a lawsuit. They got out scot-free, uh, they didn't lose, you know, earnest money because they had another whole page of additional terms written in there that, you know, like you're not going to hold us, even if it's the 11th hour and we want out, you know, we can, we can do that, which that set them up for the whole rest of 20, 20 man.

Like, you know, they just coming in and , but you know, a lot of people that they don't understand that risk. And I watched some of the people that have happened to, you know, and that was a little bit of my marketing angle is like, you know, when that was happening, Hey, we're not gonna, we're not going to leave you holding the bag.

If, if it's you're under contract here, at least do versus the money or something like from, from this buyer, this buyer, like, we're not going to give you a contract where that buyer is allowed to just walk. Scot-free with no harm, no foul. After 40 days of your home being under contract and you have already moved out, you've already moved all your stuff.

You're just waiting for your check and then, uh, and then they can, that's a cancel man. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And you would think, so maybe more rules would be put into place. You would think things I'm like this big conspiracy theorist and I'm like, look, I'm telling you, they want the little guys out. And I said that, that means all burn guys.

I think it's Zillow just bought our showing time. Um, so that's what we schedule all the houses with. It's just, it's a third party app that was, you know, originally kind of thought to be ours is real estate agents. We scheduled and get online and shine up a line down. And, uh, they just bought that. So now they're getting data on all that, you know, all the information and we were, oh my gosh, the Maria and I were talking about that.

I go, they know, they're kind of like, think about air. There's a company called air DNA and they monitor all the Airbnb BRBO. HomeAway Right. They monitor all the people who search those. So they can, like, let's say a concert comes up and suddenly, you know, this, this particular date is surrounded.

People want to go in or say, you know, like even with sports and stuff, it's like, okay, suddenly your team's in the playoffs. So the playoff dates have now been announced, boom, the hotels go crazy. Right. They know all those things. And they can monitor them. I said, here's Zillow and these companies. And I said, they know things that no realtor knows.

They know where people are moving to or where they're searching, you know, because they can tell what areas are searched the most. They can tell what houses, you know, what type of houses are searched the most. And, and most wanted in every area. I said, they can tell all this information and all this data that is almost a guessing game for our, you know, real estate agents and realtors.

I'm like, they, they get all of that. So now you just said it, you just said they bought that information. Now they know they now eat more than they did before. It was, it was clever. And I blame, you know, us collectively as real estate is it's, it's our fault in a way. Um, it's a lot of this happened because what they're doing is they, they, they want a centralized it MLS basically.

And that's what it's become. And all these small MLS is around here. Like if you just take Arizona for example, and you have paces and you have Flagstaff's and, and two stones, we should've, should've got together years ago and made that a centralized MLS. Cause that's all they really did. But all the small ones, you know, didn't want big time, you know, like we're, we're considered big time, Maricopa, Phoenix, Asia.

They didn't want us coming up doing their deals in paisan and, and Flagstaff, which is understandable. So I don't know that there's a way, but I think it was, it was going to happen regardless. And I don't think that was old enough real estate. Like you said, there should be, there should be some kind of monitoring on how they're doing business.

Um, because like you said, they're kind of rigging the system when it comes to the prices. I mean, that's, that's ringing the system. It really is, is playing with that data. It's creating a false inflation. The prices like here in queen Creek and the rent prices are going crazy out here and people can't afford it.

There's still, I mean, there's still a lot of people. Who's still, haven't recovered businesses that have closed and they're paying these people, you know, less than 20 bucks an hour, they're working their butts off and they're going to have to pay for a two bedroom, like 2000 a month. That mean that was a freaking mortgage.

So like, I mean, it's crazy. What's going on. It's really crazy. So I was like, all right, I got to call JAG. Cause I'm sure he's got more information and I'm sure he's got, and I'm sure he's got a few words. It's mind boggling to see that real estate and still are held to such a higher standard. And you have, you know, Judy Lowe the commissioner just that oversees that you know, is there to protect the people against us, you know, but who's protecting them against them, nobody.

And like you said, they can just cancel those contracts. Can you imagine if I were to go in, I mean, I mean, that is literally when you have a good realtor. Like honestly, I mean, they're invaluable. They're an asset. They are a part of your team. I mean, there's no way you can know everything, but your realtor knows everything about that area.

I mean, what you specialize in, you specialize in, I mean, you would tell me, no, no, I'm going to tell you, this is what we should do. And I don't think there was one time where you were, it looks like Jack calls this, but their Zillow's not going to do that for you. And they're not going to give you the best price they're going to, you know, they're oh, look, we paid 500,000 for that house.

And you're like, wow, look at, so any uneducated buyer would look at that house and think that they are only making 10,000 while maybe they're just working on volume. I do. And I have, um, I knew it was clever because I thought when they started, you know, I thought man, to really gain ground, they're going to have to win over the general public is this is like a value because, uh, you see a big company coming full of steam.

You think, well, they're going to make a profit where where's it all coming from? I think they were smart to do. I think some lost leaders. I think there's been a couple of incidents. It's probably been years, maybe four or five years since I've really looked into them. You know, it's a house they bought for a certain price and I've seen it, you know, maybe heard or seen a contract and that, wow.

Then they're going to turn, they're going to offer that much money. But then, you know, that's the price of advertising. You do this to a client and then here, now they're sitting in your commercial that they have and saying, oh my gosh, door just bought my house for 500,000. And they, uh, you know, my real estate agent said it was worth four 90, so, uh, that's probably free advertising in a way I would do the same thing, you know, running a company, but I definitely would want you in my corner and have your contracts.

Oh yeah. And that's the thing like, yeah. I mean, I doing that for that company, but then they just don't have the protect. Like, it's just crazy that they're not held to that standard. As, as, uh, real estate agents are just so many years of like, no, no, you know, um, we can recommend lenders. And I, you know, I do that with every client.

I'm like, Hey, these are the lenders that are killing it. And you know, their, uh, their rates are cheapest. Um, there's lenders out there that will beat anybody's rates. And so we just give them a quote and I say, shop around. And, you know, we're pushing that kind of diversity in the, in, in that section of their home buying experience and the same thing with titles and, and home warranties.

And then here comes, you know, Zillow's gonna, they got their lending now. I think they have their real estate license. They have to have it in certain states. And so they, all they did was just become what a real estate agent is that with the Zillow brand, and then what I'm seeing now, and we're kind of sale our office here.

We have, you know, we have 600 real estate agents and just in this Gilbert office and which is a lot. And so. You go off of stats, you know, like normal stats that we see all the time are things like, uh, 1% of the real estate agents, you know, in Arizona do 99% of the business, which you could kind of see that.

And it's justifiable a lot of the, you know, the, the good ones that they spend full time. And then you have a lot of part-timers. You have a lot of people that are new, they're struggling and they don't understand it. And now the turnover rates getting pretty high, you know, like it used to be 75%. Didn't have their license the second year because they thought, oh, this will be fun.

And then they're like, wow, this is quite a word that's so fun. There's a lot of work involved, a lot of kind of risk. It's just like any new business you're starting, it's your business. And you're starting, you've got to front a lot of money before money comes back. And so what I've seen in the last probably six, seven months is a lot of these new agents that are not able to make it are going and working for open door, you know, minimum wage or, or something, you know, There may be call center there, or there's a certain part in there.

And I think it's going to be interesting to see when it, when it shifts the other way, if they're just disposed of, you know, or, you know, take on employees now, things are going great. Um, and then, Nope, we don't need you. Things are going to tighten up. And now we've got our ship running at full speed and all cylinders.

So, um, that's going to be interesting to see when it starts to level and go the other way. And when we get, we get more inventory, you know, and they're not bogged down with all their work because I see, and I've experienced this, my team. We do weed similar to open door and, uh, you know, we offer to buy the house too, but I always get the first option.

Is your best option? Well, let me list it. Let me sell it. Let me market this in, make you a lot of money on this because, uh, that's, that's the best way, but I have ran across people in it and it happened probably about five years ago where somebody just like, you know, I'm going to sell open door and I was going to list it.

And then they changed their mind and said, it's just convenient. I don't have to show it. I don't have to, you know, when they give me money and I'm like, well, you're gonna, you're gonna lose $30,000. And he understood that. And he made a lot of jokes. It's convenience. And so people will pay for convenience because I I'm victim to it too.

I'll see something a little more expensive on Amazon, you know, but yeah, to go do anything.

Bye. And then I'm like, oh, I could have totally got that cheaper. If I would've got off my butt and went down to the store, but. So they're there. I think there always be that there'll always be that convenience. And so it's a fee you're paying for that convenience. And notice, we looked at a couple of, well, we looked at four or five open doors to try to find him just a property, just something to go into, you know, and he's got three friends with them and I said, I'll put the down on the house.

You could have the mortgage on the house and your friends can pay you. And so we're looking at places and every open door we went into, what just the quality of workmanship was so below par that I was like, I would be ashamed to be open door. I would be, I didn't, I have never seen an open door that wasn't, that was good.

I've never seen an open door that had good quality. You could tell exactly what they did and you could tell how crappy a job they did. And I was like, what did they have? Like five hours. Was there a camera rolling going? How quick can we get this done? I was like, this is awful. This is really bad. And I'm like, well, maybe I'm picky.

And I'm like, I am a little picky, but here's the deal. I'd rather have it undone. And then let me do it the right way than have you do a shitty job and then have to redo the whole damn thing. No. And so I'm looking at stuff going, what is covered up that I can't see. That's the scary part because you don't know, like, what did they just, you can tell they did a shoddy work with this.

What if they did something covered up with something really important that I need to know about? You know, it could happen? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I was, I'm really afraid for just the industry because what do you think will happen? What do you think is going to happen to our industry? I mean, how are you doing this?

I think it depends on how long this market goes. I mean, it's, it's good. I mean, the getting's good for them. And um, I mean, we, we just, we got a taste of it and I think everybody is so quick to forget what we've got to taste to that. And, you know, right at the beginning of COVID when these guys no longer bought houses and we're like, we're out and you know, the market's going the other way, it's going down.

And then they said, oh, nevermind, nevermind. We're back. We're back in, back in buying houses, real estate agents, we were there all the time. We're like, okay, they, they're not going to buy your house, but that's our job is we want to make sure your house gets sold. So we're gonna, we're gonna keep advertising it and market it to the public.

So I think that's going to be the most interesting point is how far. I don't know that a dramatic drop like that haven't maybe so, but it seems like there's not as much worry in the housing market as there is in the stock market. And, you know, I think we're going to follow them in some aspects. I mean, if everybody's losing their farm in the stocks, then you know, houses are going to feel it a little bit.

Yeah. So, you know, I file following Michael burry a lot, and he's the one that predicted the housing crash and made all the money. He's the one that made the stock to short them. And, uh, he's been saying, so he usually he'll say something like, just really like, kind of leave your mouth open, like, wow, unbelievable.

He said that and he owns a hedge fund and then he'll delete his Twitter. So I think in the last six months, he's, he's done that a couple of times. He's just like, you've never seen a stock market crash or a bubble that you've, you know, that we're seeing right now. And then Ben, he's gone. He's telling you this Twitter and.

Yeah. And people are, you know, like bold statement. I'm like, well, he was making that bold statement back in 2008 about the housing. And he was pretty right. And he's, he does make money. He's been right about stuff I would think. And it baffles me sometimes. I'm like, why does the stock market keep going up?

And they send out another economic. I know some of it reflects that economic, you know, like, okay, the economy. Yeah, great. You know, let's get some stocks, but I don't know. It seems a little crazy commented on how crazy it is to like, he kind of, he started the game stop. He said, you know, he pulled out before the.

Whatever you call that the Reddit, uh, and everybody went crazy with it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He invested, he kept saying there's a lot of value inherent. They have a lot of, you know, liquidity and cash. And so, um, I think the stock is undervalued and then he's coming in and no way was it meant to be that high and, yeah.

Okay. It was good, but it wasn't that good. Yeah. And so, uh, I think people are going to get, they're going to feel a huge effect on that. And then, you know, PetSmart go in with them. Was it PetSmart? It was AMC was one of them that they drove up the price of stock. I know there's other ones too, but I just think it's, it's, it looks like a dangerous game because yeah.

They're making a lot of money and they're squeezing the hedge funds out, you know, that are shorting it, but yeah. It's gonna, it's gonna go the other way too. Um, so I've already lived through one big crash with the real estate. So I know that that's not a good feeling and it's, it's funny because it is, like you said, it's super tempting.

We could pull the equity out of the house and I said, and then watch the value go down and not be able to sell it. Hi, it is tough. It's tough to, yeah, no, here's what we got. Now we have so much equity in this house, you know, because we put so much down and then the value's gone up like a couple hundred thousand and you sit there and go nuts.

You're like, holy cow. Yeah. It was an amazing time. And it's, it's, it's tough. Like we have, you would not because yeah, because I sent them, I updated with their home value and I mean, we have, we have such an awesome program. We give them their home, their Airbnb value to their mortgage. Uh, their rent value, you know?

And so a lot of these guys, just a lot of them will call and disbelief and you're like, is this, is this true? Is this right? I said, probably a little bit more. That's conservative, you know, um, value that I gave you. There's just so many that would love to sell, but there's nowhere to really go because the inventory is still, so exactly where are you going to go?

Because you're going to have to buy another overprice house somewhere, you know? Yeah. And that's yeah. And I have friends that have done it and, and, you know, we have tons of clients that just, that's the way everybody's going to have to sell and move eventually. Um, but. I like, I think the best option right now is for people that are, are upgrading, you know, uh, upsizing their house or going to something bigger.

I mean, it actually downsizing too would work. But I think if they're thinking in terms of, you know, a long-term investment and stuff, I think that's the best option because they're the house that they're in. Number one is just probably the highest value it's ever been since the thing's been built. And so they're getting that, they're getting the equity, which is probably going to help for a good side of the down payment.

And then the next house is bigger and maybe a bigger loan. These, this is also the cheapest interest has ever been. And so I don't know that it'll get much cheaper in years. So if they're, you know, I tell them like, if you're comfortable with your fixed payment, I mean, don't, don't dare get an adjustable right now.

I don't think they're going to adjust down over the next two years, you know, to save you a ton. And so if they do that, I think, I think it's a good move for people that, you know, and then there's, there's a certain group of people that I tell them that if you're living there for 10, 15 years, I mean, that's your plan.

Uh, don't, don't look at the market, look at what you can afford and what you can get and, and, and do that and know that you're going to be comfortable with that payment over the years, because there's just so many people I've heard for the last few years. And it's funny because in my, in my CRM, uh, you know, we have like 1500 clients in there and I come across and I have notes in.

And so I just, it's weird to see now over the, over the past, Seven months notes from people from that I've talked to on the phone for maybe two or three years ago and said, ah, none, the market's too high. I'm going to wait for it to come down. And this was three, you know, so I'm thinking, wow. Or there'd be a lot of people that are like, ah, we're going to wait for the market to crash.

And, uh, cause it's too high right now. This is two, three years ago. And so, you know, you'll let them know like, Hey, that didn't happen two years ago. And, and so there's, I don't think if people are, you know, now you gotta imagine this family held off buying a house for three or four years on a CRA, you know?

So I don't think if, if you're living in a house and it's going to be your home, I tell us you don't, don't pay attention to the market. Like in that terms, because they look at like an investors they're shopping, like investors. And I think that's, that's a hard game to play, you know, that sell now by now, you know, and, and you're gonna, you're going to be having to move out and into your house is a lot if you're going to try to time that.

But, uh, that's another thing. If, if you know, the stock market crashes and housing goes down, we have so many people. I mean, just me personally on our team, we have, uh, I have notes from people that are waiting. So like, just like a stock that goes down in value, are those people really going to buy? Did they have been waiting and waiting for it to come down?

And when it does, when do they get it? And if they get in, is there so many people that are jumping into the housing that it just either levels out or brings it right back up again? Because they're all like I was waiting to invest a bunch of money when it went down and I've taken a lot of that IRA money and put it into other things now, and now it's locked away for like another three years, you know?

Like, well, I'm not getting that back for three. Yeah. And I, and my, the last house that I flipped was a year ago, I've thought a little kind of treading water a year ago. I was like a little bit, it's a little too high. And you know, most people, the inventory is so low that even if it's a, it's a piece of crap home that needs flips, they're getting top dollar for that thing, you know?

And so is there so many buyers out there? This is, yeah, I'll take it and I'll fix it up. Yeah. I've seen some stuff in Tucson, like breezy prices. You know, I was looking at a two, one down there for another, uh, BNB and the guy wanted 3 99 for two, one. The thing was like less than a thousand square feet. And I was like, seriously, I can't, I can't make that.

Not even on a, an Airbnb. I can't make the income up to pay for that. Sorry. I'm going to have to replace everything. I don't even know if that plumbing is that terracotta crap that they got down there. Yeah. Yeah,

top dollar you're paying. Yeah. Like, sure. We'll we're gonna inspect every little thing, every little thing I'm with you. Cause I'm, you know yeah, definitely be interesting. Yeah. If you want to sell, it's a great time to sell, but where are you going to go? I'll tell you that I've had two clients in the past year that, and I could kind of enter them.

And I said, it's not a bad idea because I mean, you're getting such a great life experience from this. They have sold their homes and bought a motor home and said, we'll be back in a year and a half. And hopefully prices are lower by then. And they're going to travel, you know, the United States. I mean, they, and they made so much equity, you know, they went from like, that's true.

This is the time if you're going to do that. And so yeah, the equity that they made on the homeless, basically a free motor home, you know, they got there, they paid their home off or their loan back and they made, made a lot of cash. So you got to hope that in a year and a half, it's not worse to come back, but, you know, I thought that's amazing.

Yeah. That's so true. I never even thought of that. That would be a good way to do it because you're not really buying a house. Are you? You're buying. Yeah. And you're getting, I mean, motor homes, stuff that I know with, COVID it put a squeeze on the motor home market too, because they were selling out. Yeah.

Besides that. I mean, they were having a short everything cause I was going to get a, pop-up a hard top pop-up camper. And I remember right before COVID I started shopping around. I was like, yeah, it's going to cost about 20 grand. And then I was like, I'm a bargainer, I'm going to talk down, I'm going to get this price.

And then COVID happened. And then they started raising the prices to, Hey, why, why is this happening? And they're like, oh man, we're selling out now they're on back order. And I couldn't even get the one that was on the lot. And I said, no. And uh, yeah, he said, everybody has to stay home. Nobody's going, can travel in the world, putting word, traveling in their RV.

And so they started selling out and the prices and without necessarily adding dealer, you know, increases like $1,500 and they thought, oh no, but so yeah, getting the updates from the, like the clients that did sold their house and they have told me, they're like, it is extremely hard right now to find spots to park because they see to these parks are all sold out.

And I mean, it is summer and you can't get anything. Kevin, we're looking at him. And we were like, because we lived off of the national parks. Right. And we were looking at one because our garage that you got us in this house, like 44 feet. So we're dude, we're looking at 42 feet long and all these really great big ones.

And then we realized, um, somebody said something on some show or something, some RV show. And they said, oh, if you're going to go to the national parks, don't get to anything over 35 feet. And we're like, wait, what? Yeah. Because you can't find spaces for them. And then yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So now it seems like it's gonna happen again, like, you know, like the open door, that one was the scariest to me, just because of the quality of that.

I mean, what is your, you know, what do you have that you can go back and say. This was done in a half-ass manner like this, somebody, whoever did this, this was almost fraud, you know? Yeah. And the thing, and I haven't heard any cases, you know, I've heard cases with normal transactions, like a seller or the buyer wants to go back at the seller or anything like that.

That's just, that's always happened, but I haven't heard any, and I would like to hear some that people have gone back on open door on something or, you know, but, but then my thought is like, they're wall street, they're backed by big money. They're obviously gonna have a big time lawyer. So is anybody even going to be able to compete with that?

You know? And like, yeah, that's true. They can keep you in court forever. Yeah. And so how much money are you going to spend to get, you know, maybe you had a $30,000 problem with your house. Are you going to spend another 15, 20 grand in the hopes that you. You know, um, and then again, going back to their paperwork, they have every kind of release cycle.

Fine. Yeah. You sign this or sign this it to be one big, like one day, one page and say, we get a, we get to do what we want and we canceled. We want, you never get a Sue us sign right here. And then, yeah, like, let's just make this easy. We can handle this in one big paragraph. We can even put this in like a, you know, 40 font and 40 point font, the oldest to us, and we can do what we want during this process.

We can cancel, we can do whatever the heck we want. You understand that a little bit. Cause that's basically what all that language is, is just, you know, there's no, that's probably true. I mean, yeah, because the person with the most money usually, right. If they draw that stuff out for forever, they'll just draw it out.

That's all they got to do. We had, we had a lawsuit years ago. Remember with the big house I had told you about, and that lawsuit went on for fricking six or seven years. I mean, it went on for a long time and we were paying literally like a thousand a month or 1500 a month. We had given them, I forget what it was.

I mean, I don't want to exaggerate, but I I'm sure it was a $10,000 or $15,000 retainer and then went through that and then it, and then it turned into like a monthly mortgage payment back then, you know, just keeping the attorneys going. The end, you know, we pulled him pull one. W but we didn't. I mean, because we had spent so much money that whatever we got was pretty much gone, it was almost, that's a great point where you're like, I'm in too far now.

Well, we're screwed now. Like we've lost so much money. So yeah. It turned into a nightmare. It was a real nightmare. I don't think I would do that again. I don't know. I mean, it would have to be a really bad purchase, but I mean, I feel sorry for those people, because I'm just looking at them as they walk into this.

And like you said, they might as well just sign, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think I would be interested to see. What I mean, cause of course the lawsuits don't really start flying until the market goes the other way. And then people are like, you know, now everybody's happy. They're looking at their home. And they're like, Ooh, it went up 20 grand in the last couple months, you know, I bought this and when I saw I was going the other way, that's people that are upset and want to put, they're going to find somebody.

And I think, you know, that's what happened in the last action step bathroom. Like I got to go after. And so it's just, it is, it is weird and hard for me to understand why real estates are sales, such a higher standard to protect those clients. You know, that's what we're supposed to do. And they're basically, it's like you're buying, you're using them to buy their own home.

Who do you think is going to get the better deal you're basically using, they're not going to really represent you, but they're going to sell it to you. And same thing with the new builds that are, you know, having. So I think when, when it does, that's when it all come out and maybe the lawsuits will, and we'll all learn lessons then, but, um, it just, it just seems weird how they were.

So, you know, and I know there's corners and, and, and, or ways loopholes, how they're doing the one-stop shop, which, yeah. Here's your, here's your lender, here's your title? Here's your, you know, we're, we're selling you the house. So we're basically the agent now. It's all right here. Um, and brokers do that too.

You know, we have to sign a disclosure saying that, Hey, you understand, we do business with these people. Um, they sign the same disclosures, but then, uh, I just, I mean, I kind of really sat back on our last deal a couple of days ago with somebody, you know, some of the team members in the office and they thought, do you see how much paperwork they, I mean, they signed just like, do you think, like, it's hard for us to remember everything that's listed on there and.

You know, like I've had friends and they don't remember nothing on there and I'll joke with them. I'll tell them. I like, Hey, it's I read that last contract. I don't know if you remember you signed it, but I put it in there that you owe me, like jobs, you smoothie once a week for the next 52 weeks. That's the sign contracts, you know?

And, and, and, uh, you know, there's just so much, I think, when does it, what is it ever going to be enough? And it seems like every couple months we got it, you know, now we have a wire fraud disclosure, you know, because that's the thing. So, yeah. So, I mean, there's just all these new disclosures, like adding, and I'm thinking my gosh.

And so when does that become, you know, like, I, I just don't see any, probably 99% of maybe the more of, of all the buyers that I've seen. I don't think they, you know, as much. They're going to retain all that and understand it all. And even though I spend hours, like each client I'll spend hours on the phone, you know, walking them through what, each thing that they're going to assign to me.

And then I'm like it just, and then here comes next week with another disclosure F oh, it was the, the COVID one was added reasonably that it seems like it went away, you know, but that was another disclosure, like in the event of, you know, because what they were seeing was, uh, like this home is supposed to close tomorrow.

Well, title, title, companies closed for COVID they've, you know, they've shut the office down. And so now it's delaying closing who's at fault, you know? So, um, another, another disclosure, but yeah, that's so true. I didn't even think about that. Everybody was, it was weird for a while. It was all the remote people going, you know, and doing everything it's difficult to schedule.

Yeah, there's just, I'm, I'm a fan of simplifying a similar thing. I just think it should be more simple and understandable and you know, it has to be worded. Like you're buying a house. You're not going to be able to Sue anybody, but maybe the seller, if they don't disclose something that comes up, you don't want that you're on a sinkhole or something.

Yeah. I just don't want to see realtors go the way of travel agents, you know? And that's, that's the scary part for me. It is a little bit, but I think that's like my thought is now it's gotta be way off. And I understand the convenience, like the, like the Amazon and everything else before. Yeah. There's just, man, there's going to be, you're going to miss that.

You know, there's, there's still people that just like go to the bank to cash their checks, even though you can snap pictures on them and stuff. And they just want, you know, and I, I find myself at times, like, damn it, I'm not able to get a hold of a damn customer service representative because everything's automated.

I know the banks have pushed for that for the years. And, and so I think we'll, we'll continue to have that service for a while. I can see it getting maybe real estate is making less and less because I think they're going to be a point where, and that's already happening right now. And, and it's, it's a fine line between kind of colluding talking about commissions and things.

When, when other people you're not allowed to set those prices in this determine well with the housing so low. Yeah. It's getting competitive in, in, so you might see. A big wave of that first. I think we've already, I think we're in it right now, you know, because normally, you know, you would see a lot of 3%, you know, 3% commissions.

And I think now we're seeing a lot more two and a half percent. I would show people and especially listings when I would show, when I'm selling their house and they want, you know, they want like, well, I want, you know, discounted fees and I'm like, well, that's great. And let me show you what discounted fees look like.

So I would pull all the two and a half percenters that sold. And there was an average, I remember I pulled the same price point. I don't have the exact numbers. Nope, Nope, exactly. Yeah. So it was like, say it was all the same square footage, same style home. And um, the two and a half percenters sold on an average $27,000, less than the three percenters.

And these are, these were mid-range homes at the time. They were like $300,000 homes, not like million dollars. So $27,000 is a significant amount of difference. So I would tell these sellers, I'm like. You just saved six, 7,000 in commission only to lose 37,000, you know, and total. So, yeah. And, and so I seen a lot of the clients walk all like my money agent, uh, sold it, or I did this tech for sale by owner.

I sold it myself online and they just, you know, they posted the MLS and everything, and I offered, you know, like a couple thousand dollars commission and, uh, or 2% or something. And we've actually had a couple of instances in real life and I've been, I've had the client, it was a, it was a fisbo tech company.

So this guy is selling his home, uh, and Morrison ranch. And he's using a Fitbit, says he doesn't have to pay real estate agent fees. He's just paying them a flat fee, the fee that, that goes to me. So basically maybe he's paying like 4% total, which is, yeah, that's a huge savings. And I talked to the neighbor after, you know, my clients moved in and like, yeah, he was, he was totally bragging.

Didn't have to pay an agent. He sold that and I was like, well, here's the comps. My clients just saved probably $50,000. I would have, if I would have had that listing and sold the house, I wouldn't have taken an offer less than 50,000 more than we paid. And I would have marketed it a lot better. And he would have walked away with 55 grand more.

And he, but he never, he doesn't know that. So he walked away satisfied thinking. I just didn't have to pay an agent. Awesome. Me. And then I can tell you to show you, you know, exactly what I'm talking about and not just theorize that yeah. He could have made it, made more client then calls me out and has me stopped by just a few months later after buying this home.

And he goes, Hey, I got a, I'm going to go back to Utah. I'm going to sell the summit. So I thought he was joking. No, we just got an amazing deal on this. This is a beautiful home and he's a no, it, he actually had called me the next day. He was like, I'm really serious. We did. So he was a good guy and he was joke around and I was like, are you really, you really?

You got to sell it. And I said, okay. He turned around. And when we sold that home for 60, I think it was 65,000 something more than he just paid. Because normally in that case, you just bought a home to turn around and sell it and then pay, you know, listing fees. Yeah, exactly. And the closing costs again and your loan fee and all that stuff.

You're like, ah, you're not exactly going to make money, but just months later. And my, my whole hoping was that that guy and, you know, people follow their old homes. I hope you've seen it. And it probably just crushed his dreams. Why was this guy, this guy just bought it from us. And then he turned around and sold it for 65,000 more.

We're not doing much. And that happened, you know, twice. And one was a new, it was. So it's important that you look at your agent's experience or if they're on scene, at least one was a new agent and I had the buyer and we scored a heck of a deal. Cause he didn't really know what he was doing. And then we turned around and he got a job offer in Chicago two months later.

And I remember that agent calling me like, oh, what'd you, did you guys flip it or something? Or why was this so much more? And you know, I'm sorry, like, you know, I worked for my client, so that's the advantage you get. But yeah, with that, with those discounted brokers and stuff, and it's going to be interesting to see this last from 20 to 21, if that's still like a huge gap in, you know, discounted fees, right.

Now we see it more than ever, and it's, it's almost become a normal, we have buyers agents and we see a house listed, they're offering two and a half percent. We see we're starting to see 2%. And I'm like, I don't know if that's, that's going to work out great for them or, you know, in the case, it's, it's really hard to, to prove it without like the case that I did without.

Yeah. But I don't think the sellers are fully aware that they've offered less and open doors, a seller now they're, you know, they own all these houses. They're a seller too, and they're not offering, you know, 3% or something like that. So I just wonder, they've got to have somebody in there. You would think that's running this data.

That'd be like, Hey, if you offer a bigger co-broke, you could sell these houses for more. Um, let's do that. So I would think that they're having somebody to do that. I don't, you know, um, Erie as, I mean, if I'm running that company, I'm going to test that. I'm going to be like, Hey, let's get a group homes. And so, yeah.

And on a max scale, so I've done it on one house where it was my friend's house and, and we got to, we got to listen to these and he's tech savvy. So we had cameras and audio in there and, um, all over. And I wanted to hear what people say and it's, it's kind of sad because some of these agents, you know, potentially lose their license.

If I were to ever release her, you know, send that footage of, so I put this house on the market at two and a half percent. I know that there's another house. It's similar, a little bit of differences, but that's 3% down the road. So these agents, you know, you got a lot of them and they're immediately coming in and immediately they, they kind of have a negative attitude towards the house, you know, like, oh, that looks like it's something that was repaired.

They're trying to push their client. And so another thing is hard to prove, but, you know, so then I said, great, we got the data now, let's see it. Now I flip that to, you know, offer 3% to the buyer's agent sold in a couple of days. And, you know, and, um, not many people bashing it, you know, people really talking to clients, making them feel good about it.

So that's, uh, I think that's something that should be at least looked at how much of an influence is that not meeting disclose, you know, because, um, I'm usually open with my buyers and, and let them know. And I have, I have kind of a track record. So there's houses that I've sold buyers that, you know, I've have all the houses that we've looked at save, and then there's houses that I don't get hardly paid anything because the seller's not, but I'm never going to shy my client away from that.

And we've closed on those. So I always, I feel good that we run our business that way. And I've told everybody on my team, like you have to run your business that way. Just technology and everything. It's going to come back and, and look what I was able to do with, you know, just viewing some of those agents opinions on that house and then changing it a little bit.

So you have so many, you know, of, of that. There's gotta be, you know, I would think that there's some people that are very influenced on that and are they going to influence their product? Yeah. We're supposed to do what's best for them and their interests, but you know, there's still criminals out there breaking walls.

Yeah. No, I mean, it's not stopping people, but, um, maybe that's something that will come out of it. The, it just be more transparent with that, but then I don't have a clear answer because my fear is too, like, yeah, if you do do that transparency, then you have average buyers that don't know everything that you do.

You're out, you know, 11 hours showing, and then you come home to do paperwork and, you know, till two in the morning. And so. It's the video. Cause they might just see it like, oh man, you get like $8,000. If you sell this house, dang. You know, I make that two months, you're just going to get this off of like five seconds.

Realize that exactly. Five seconds. Yeah. And, and so I've seen shows where people have, they're like, they literally looked at 80 homes and I'm like that poor realtor. Yeah. And you, and you have to like, I've done that like recently I've I can't even imagine. I'm like, whatever. Yeah. I've one time I've kind of I've I guess you call it firing or getting, you know, a bit of a seller and just recently kind of have a buyer, but I think they wanted somebody else and I was just kind of really, yeah, that's fine because there's such a low budget that I don't feel that I can.

I can help. I like I've, I've spent hours and hours traveling, you know, to Arizona city showing these houses. And it's just early. I worked as a travel agent for years, and there was a time where we got automatically 10% commission on hotels and airlines and everything else. And when they started taking the commissions away and people would want you to search for hours for the lowest fare and stuff, you weren't getting any commission on that stuff.

And so our boss would say, look, we don't make anything on this. And we never charged most, most travel agents, never charged a fee directly to their clients. It always, yeah, that's something that's getting looked at too. That I know there's something that's on, uh, in the courts right now. I know I should probably research a little bit more.

I think it has to do with commission and, and their thing. And it could change where the buyers have to pay their own real estate. And you know, of course, a lot of people like buyers don't have, you know, a ton of free money. Anyways. What makes you think they're going to want to hand it over to us to find them in the house, then they're going to really, you know, more than everything, what are you?

You know, that's no, you don't deserve that much for just finding as a house. And, and then first they said that the prices went lower when they didn't give commissions and they did for a minute and then the price has shot right back up. Yeah. So it's going to be interesting. You have to make sure that you're getting paid for your time.

Your time is, I mean, come on seriously. 80 houses. How many hours is that? Yeah, there's just so much that, yeah, there's so much involved in every deal. I mean, there is, there, there will be some deals that come along that you're just like. That was awesome. That was so like, the client was a dream to work for, was like, you know, and I see a lot of new buyers.

They, they do. They feel, they view the real estate agent. I think as we should find the house for you, you know, I have to remind some of them that it's not the case now. I mean, you, you have the, you can find the house yourself. Like I'm going to be there to make sure you get a good deal. It's a good house and you, you get safe now.

You've got the resources you can look through, you can put in all this stuff, you can decide without even going there, you know, oh, you know what? This doesn't have a nice enough yard or this doesn't have this, this doesn't have that. All the things that you didn't. So you can eliminate a lot of the old, I mean, the I've heard some, I've heard some closed transactions from people around, you know, or like there may be a little disgruntled, like, well, we found the house ourselves enough.

Well, you shouldn't, you know, I gave you, I had the tools here. I gave you the tools to search the home. Yeah. I love your, I still get your emails and I'm always looking at the houses and I'm like, Ooh, I should call Jack on this one. Cause you know? Yeah. Yeah. So I think the general public is having a hard time adapting to that skew.

Things are changing now. So it's not, it's not an MLS book that I have and I hold all the houses and I come, you know, like, come sit down with you at dinner and go through them. But your technology and your expenses go up as well. I mean, it is. And, and I was just thinking about that. Like you remember, um, probably 15 years ago, 10 years ago, like I bought like, uh, say, uh, Photoshop, which I use.

There you go. Right. And it was, I bought the software. And then I owned the software. Oh, now it must be, you can't own Jack. Every, everything is a monthly fee. And I said, like, I was telling him that he like couple of months ago, I'm like, God, can we just get any more monthly fees on something? You know, like, uh, the Microsoft word, you know, the Photoshop is it's all, you know, annually bills are paid.

And so I'm like, holy cow, I still have mine on there. So I ha I was doing a word document. And my friend said, you don't have 365. And I said, Nope, I got the old

dies. I said, this computer is just going to get fixed because I would, I always hold it out. Cause I remember calling, I called the help line for voters shop or something. Oh, that's a really old program. And I was like, yeah, but I own it. And it's mine. I don't even Photoshop even has this is the followup anymore because it didn't do it.

Yeah. Now, now, now, now I pay, I finally gave in and a few years back because they had so many cool features that I'm like, wow, I just point click in the background and it changes it out. Yeah. I use Canva for everything. Yeah. And so, but yeah, everything is just a fee. Well, you know, now you got to pay the guys for the drones to go out.

When you get really nice properties to get, you know, you're got to pay the guys for the photographers. And I know like, even because we do photographers for our BnBs and anytime we change anything, like we change a couch, we have to go get the photographers back in there. And sometimes. Even though they don't have to do all the rooms.

They still charge us the same hundred and 50 or a hundred and whatever it is. And you're like, dude, just doing the living room. Cause it's just a new game. Come on. Like three months ago, I gave you that. And then somebody poured something on my damn couch and now I'm out, not just the price of the couch, another 175 bucks.

So yeah, there's a lot of expenses that people well don't realize that real, that real estate agents do and realtors have re I love the difference between realtors to, uh, belonging, to, uh, that organization. You have that code of ethics. And I think that to me, that is imperative to have a code of ethics.

Like you said that those other people just walking in may do something and then you literally genuinely go in and go look, I just want to make you happy. Let's find you something that works for you and your family. I don't care if it's, I mean, obviously I'd love it to be 3%, but if it's two and a half, who cares, let's just get it done, you know?

And I think that's so important. There's not a lot of people with ethics anymore, out there. Creepy weird out there. Well, I want to thank you for your time today and thanks for bending my ear and telling me all that stuff. Cause that was really good information. I knew you had asked. Uh, it was, it was fun.

Yeah. Hopefully one day there's the Jack Burns law. Where it's you have to disclose what you actually paid. Yes, exactly. That would be. And we'll name it. The Jack Berg law. All right, Jack. Thanks so much for your time on you have a good one. So that was my interview with Jack Burns. And I think you can tell, we touched on a lot of stuff.

Honestly, there was, there was more stuff that we took out, but you got the gist of it. You get the gist of it. There's a lot of things going on in real estate. They're manipulating a lot of prices. You know, people are working hard for what they do and they need to be protected. I think that realtors, especially because realtors are different than real estate agents, realtors had that code of ethics and that profession needs to be protected because they protect you.

It's really important. It's really important. You're going to walk out from Zillow or open door and they're going to make you sign all these waivers and stuff. And literally you have no protection. He said you might as well just have a paragraph. Everything gets to be our way we can cancel and do whatever we want to, and you can't ever Sue us.

And there you go. That's the entire contract basically, that's it. So the only thing standing between you and a massive challenge is a good realtor. You really, really need one. So I love the fact that Jack came and gave us this interview. And I also love the fact that he knew all the stuff I knew. There was a lot of weirdness going on with the prices going up so much.

And we have a lot of Zillow homes and open door homes in our area. And I was like, what is the deal with these guys? I mean, no wonder the prices are going up so much. I mean, people can't even afford the rents. The rents are. By literally several hundred dollars a month for most people. And in some cases up to a thousand dollars a month, I heard some people were paying 1500 and they want 2,500 now.

And I was like, that's ridiculous. I mean, to raise your rent 10% or something, I get it. But to go crazy on it like that, I mean, it's just nuts. So hopefully you guys got the information you needed. Hopefully you enjoyed this and I will be with you next week for my very last new episode until like around right before Christmas, because we're going to be taking, uh, September and October.

So right in the month of November, we'll be back at the beginning of November. We'll be here just in time for all the holiday stuff to start. I can't wait for the holidays. I can't wait for it to cool off being in Arizona. You're like, I can not wait for fall, but I wanted to tell you have a happy Monday.

God bless you. Thank you for listening. Go and grow.

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